Name: Stop the Leak: How to Optimize Dunning for Growth
Uploaded: 2025-01-23T17:47:58.320Z
Duration: 45 min 4 s
Description: Stop the Leak: How to Optimize Dunning for Growth

Transcript for "Stop the Leak: How to Optimize Dunning for Growth": Alright. We're a couple minutes after the hour now. Let's go ahead and get started. Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. This is a very exciting day here at Recurly as this lunch and learn marks our very first event for our newly announced Recurly Navigate program. Our navigate program is aimed at providing you all with more resources, valuable insights, and ongoing support to really help you reach your full potential with Recurly. And what better way to introduce the program and to kick it off than with our very own Hannah Wilden, who will be sharing all of her incredible knowledge and experience around optimizing the dunning process. So today, we'll be talking specifically about that process that takes place immediately after the invoice becomes past due and really how to optimize that process for success. So with that, I will hand it over to the person you're all here to see. Hannah, the stage is yours. Hi, everyone. As Morgan said, I'm Hannah, based in our London office. And I've been with Mercurley for about two and a half years now. So I've definitely seen some variety in Dunning setup, over my time. And if I had to sum up the most common pitfall, in one word, it would probably be short. So let that simmer for a bit. Cool. So let me share the agenda for today's session. So, we'll start up with just a really simple recap. If anyone has accidentally stumbled onto today's call, what is Dunning, and why, you should be, looking into it as a business, how can you understand your current Dunning setup in Recurly, and then we'll start the true content, 10 top tips for optimizing dunning. So what best practice do we recommend? What we've seen work well with other customers? And then I'll do a kinda key takeaway summary at the end. Okay. So up first, dunning overview. So what is what is dunning? Dunning is the essentially, when an invoice becomes past due. So it's the time period, that you have where you would be trying to collect on this invoice. So we do that through, our retry model and email communications essentially. And who enters the done in process, so which of your subscribers would fall into this? It's essentially where the renewal payment fails. And then depending on if we get a soft decline or a hard decline back from the gateway, we'll do slightly different things. So if it's a soft decline that we get back, the most common soft decline you see on the platform is insufficient funds. If we get a soft decline back, we'll email communicate to your customers, and we will retry that transaction. If we get a hard decline back from the gateway, and the most common hard decline that we get is a invalid account number. If we get a hard decline, we will still send email communications, but pretty much in most cases, we will not retry, that transaction. So we're relying a bit more on emails, for hard declines. So how does it work at Recurly? Obviously, previous roles, previous companies you might have been with, each, platform and system can work slightly differently. So if we're talking specifically about Recurly, there are sort of 2 main, tools that I've mentioned already. So retries up first. If you look at the diagram here, you imagine as soon as the invoice fails, it moves into your done in campaign and you can set that window length. So I'll talk about this in a moment, but say this is a monthly subscribe subscriber that you're paying monthly, you might wanna have a 27 day window here. So that last day would be 27 days. And Recurly's algorithm will, work to, figure out when best to retry that transaction throughout that done in window and try and successfully collect on that payment. As well as the retries, we will also then send, emails to your customers. So this part, you actually have a little bit more control over. So the retries are handled by a machine learning algorithm, whereas the emails, you guys can control exactly which days you would like those to be sent. So, yeah, those are the 2 tools that we'll be, talking about. Today, we very much look at kind of, email and window length, because the the algorithm is smart enough that we don't really need to intervene too much. So, I'm gonna switch over first actually and just change my screen, and jump into the Recurly app. I also, run a dog walking business on the side. Not really, but hypothetically. So, this is my test environment here that I'll take you through. So I just wanted to show you how you could look into the recurly app for yourselves and really see how you might be set up today. So I'll start with the configuration and then I'll I can look at the analytics afterwards, but there were a few key areas. One of them would be the email templates. So, if I scroll down here, the Dunning ones are all right at the end. So I'm gonna keep keep scrolling, but you could see here, this is your dunning management templates and you can see I've got a few different templates on the go. So these ones are currently attached to my dunning monthly campaign and these ones are attached to my Dunning annual campaign. And I'll I'll talk more about that later. But if I could then, go in and edit any one of these so I could edit my template if I wanted to. I can view the HTML, in in the browser and see what they look like. So if you wanna make changes to your email content, this is the area that you need to be in. And the other key area is the dunning management area, aptly named. And you can see here, I am set up for best practice. So, I offer a monthly and an annual subscription to my customers, and therefore, I have a monthly and an annual campaign window. So the monthly campaign here, if we jump in, this is, I'm a direct to consumer business, so I only do automatic invoicing. I don't send any manual invoices. So this is the part that I have set up. And you can see here, I can control in the campaign actions if I edit. I can control when these emails go out. So I can say, I'd like my email to go out 5 days. I want the next one to go out 5 more days. So now we're on day 8, day 13, day 18, and day 22. And then I can set my overall dunning length here. So you can see once all of these kind of email timings added up, it leads me to a 27 day dunning window essentially before, in this instance, I subscribe expire the subscription, and the invoice itself will fail. So those are setting options. You could choose, some of our b to b customers. They might choose to keep the invoice open so that one of their teams can call that customer up and collect on it. But for the most part, we generally see that the invoice would fail and the, subscription would expire. So, yeah, that's where to look. It's worth noting that if you offer trials, you this is where you would set up for your trial, so you could send different email communication at the trial ending moment. And if you do offer manual, manual payments as well, then you can set up a separate, done in campaign for manual subscriptions as well. So, yeah, and the last thing I should have said actually was as well as controlling the days, that you want these emails to be sent, you would then pick from the drop down list. Oh, that doesn't pop up on the browser. That's a bit annoying. If if you click on this this part here, it will do a pop up and it will show you all of your email templates that are available for you to select from. So you can see I have a different template, being sent at each moment throughout that done in window. So that's pretty much the configuration in a snapshot. And then the other area that you, and again, at the end, we'll we'll talk about doing some office hours and digging into this a bit more. But within the analytics, there's, a done in campaign section here. So you can see, again, this is all test data. I don't really run a dog walking business, but, you can see here that we've got, you know, how is your overall recovery rate doing for Dunning? You can look at it, via at the invoice level. You could look at it look at it at a revenue level. You can compare how is this new version doing compared to your old version? How is your monthly campaign doing against your annual campaigns? There are a few different ways to cut the data from here. So, yeah, I think that's pretty much everything. How to look at it, how to edit it, and I'm gonna jump back over now to my presentation and get to the juicy stuff, which is how should you be set up. So, jump back over here. 10 top tips for optimizing dunning, and I'll take you through each one of these in detail. So I think it's important to just sort of take a step back and put yourself in the consumer mindset where I've lost count of how many subscriptions I personally have. But, you know, if if my Disney payment failed and I get that Disney plus and I get that email from them saying that, you know, my payment wasn't going through, I know exactly what their logo is, their color scheme, their fonts almost. Like, I know what I'd be expecting that email to look like, versus, when I have received a scam email from Amazon Prime and the font's a bit dodgy and there's some bolding in random places and there's not a logo, like, I'm never gonna click that link. So it's really important that the, you build as much trust as you can with your customers when you're sending emails around payments. There's so much scamming in that space that we just need to do everything we can to really show that this is, you know, really you guys sending it and it is safe to click links to payment pages, etcetera. So, using Recurly as an example. So on the left here is the Recurly's, like, standard styling, I guess. So if you weren't if you haven't done any styling in the Recurly app, then this it's quite possible that this is the type of email that you're sending, which, hopefully, you've all seen the rebrand. So you might if you're expecting purple, we have had a bit of a change. But this is in theory our new branding. You know, it's a really bright yellow. So if the emails that you were receiving from us from our product team around announcements, and then you got this link email, again, obviously, we're a b to b business, but, you know, let's pretend this was Disney. This is the fun Disney styling over here, and then this is some random email that I don't recognize. The odds of me interacting with that are fairly slim. So, as it potentially doesn't need to be said, but you'll be amazed. It really is important that you match your, the emails that you send from Recurly to your branding on your website, to the branding that you have in other communications. And just to really hit that message home, you can actually set a header and a footer style. So when I shared the screen a moment ago, and I was showing you the email template area, at the very top of that page is your header and footer. So the best thing that you actually would do is to set your header styling and set your footer styling And that will actually apply to all of your emails that you send. So not just the dunning emails but it will also apply to other emails that you might have turned on. So renewal reminders or subscription change emails, we want all of that to be, to be properly branded. So the other thing as well is also, I guess, the the very clear intent about what you want your customer to do. So in this example here on the left, I think oh, one screen too far. I think it's probably asking me to view an online invoice, although not clear. Is it asking me to email billings? Like, what do I want? What what is this business asking me to do? And what we really want is a really nice clear to action. So, again, you know, think about what your action button is on your website and make that the really clear so that it's what your customers are used to clicking, update your billing information, which is normally, what we're asking customers to do, during the done in campaign. So you'll see here, you know, we can add in, I'll talk about this in a more in a moment, but, you know, making sure you include the name of the person. You can include how much the actual amount was for. So just doing adding some extra information in there to show that, you know, that oh, yeah. No. That yep. 9999 Disney. Yep. Got it. So yeah. And stay awesome. So, again, we talk a bit about this in a moment, but language and tone, you know, you all have your own brand, voice. So just make sure that, you know, if you've got a really young audience, you're using kind of very friendly, soft casual language. If you have quite a, if you're a direct consumer, but it's quite a business type software, you might wanna be a little bit more kinda professional language. So that's something else to consider, which leads me onto this section, which is, getting your communication right. So, as I mentioned, you know, the retries take care of themselves, but what you do have control over is when to send the email to your customers. So, this is a real life example of a customer. Oh, I've lost one of my little email things. I had a little email template on this one as well. But what this is essentially showing is this, customer of ours, the customer updates, filter here is what we're looking at. So this is essentially showing, how many customers went into the account management area and added a new card information or updated their card information, and then the the failed transaction then successfully went through. And what you can see here is most customers were doing this on day 0. So straight away, as soon as that invoice was failing, they were getting an email, which is this email that was getting sent on day 0, and they were logging straight in updating their payment information. This customer also sent another email on day 4, and you can see here there's another spike in customers successfully, having a transaction go through because they updated billing information. They sent another email on day 9 and another one on day 15. So, you can see here that, you know, it is important to send regular emails throughout the dunning window. So if it was set to 27 days, you're probably gonna send about 5 emails during that time. You know, we don't recommend kinda sending 1 and then not saying anything else for 27 days. We do see a direct correlation between emails being sent and customers logging in and updating their payment information. This is then showing, you know, why you then want a longer window length. So, in this example here, this customer has a 28 day done in window. This actually was this is actually the same customer. So this is when they were doing 18 days, previously, and we recommended that they tagged on, we actually say 27, but, just because of the leap year fun. So the reason we basically recommended was there's sort of 10 more days here where, sure, it's not huge numbers like here, but we are still able to successfully collect on those invoices, throughout that tail end. So for if you offer monthly subscriptions, we would recommend a 27 day dunning window. That gives us the Recurly, retry model its maximum amount of time to work. And if you offer plans that, for example, a yearly plan or a 6 monthly, or quarterly, then we would recommend a 60 day dunning window. That's we that then gives our retry model 60 days to to try and work and successfully collect that payment for you. The reason for monthly is that we don't recommend, that you do 60 days on a monthly is it just means that there could be a stage where 2 monthly invoices are out as past due. Both of them are going through retries or sending duplicate emails. So, normally, the accounting teams for kind of, clarity of data just prefer that, you know, you don't run out a second invoice, basically. So our third tip is just making sure that you don't send the same email multiple times, which we do see. We would recommend that, you know, each email has different information in, and that, again, I mentioned this earlier, you know, we have a a whole bunch of email parameters you can use that will drop in. For example, you saw it said, hi, Hannah, so it can drop in the name. You can send them to your actual make sure you're sending the URL where you want them to go. You can include, you know, the v it was a Visa card, ending 3385. Doing this sort of thing again links back to how can we validate that this is a safe email to open and to click. Well, you already know I've got a visa 3385. So I'm like, oh, you already have my billing information. So that's built some trust, equally sort of confirming that the 799 was, you know, was the amount. So we just recommend doing what you can to kind of, vary the emails, and the language that you include in there. And, yeah, changing tone. So, you know, if we, again, if we take that 27 day dunning window, you know, and you're Disney, you might start out very like, oops. The payment's failed. Just click here. And then, you know, the second one is like, we still haven't got you, you know, very friendly. But as that as that kind of month goes on, so the 4th or 5th email that's now being sent in, like, day 24, 28, it might say, like, this is your last chance, you know, act now. So you're really trying to build a little bit of urgency throughout throughout that those emails. The 4th tip, is a countdown. So, again, you know, we all receive lots of emails, every day and so, you know, people are busy. You mean to, oh, yeah. I need to log in there or I don't remember my password or I'll get back to that. So, just doing what you can to very clearly show the customer, like, how long do they have left. So we would recommend, like, showing a countdown until their account will close, expire, end, whatever language it is that you guys use, at your business. But, yeah, just making sure that's really clear to the customer. We'll show in a moment as well that we recommend putting that in the email subject lines as well, but I'll I'll touch on that in a moment. Tip number 5. Yeah. Reminding your customer of the value you provide. So, you know, in a world where your customers are opening your emails, and they're not choosing to do anything, they're sort of choosing what started as an involuntary churn because the payment couldn't go through is sort of now becoming more of, like, voluntary churn mindset where they're like, actually, yeah, maybe I wasn't using that. Oh, you know, I'm not gonna add my payment information. I'm I'm gonna let that expire. And so you're almost having to resell your customer on the value that your business delivers and create some some FOMO. And so this is some of the language that we've seen other customers use here. So, you know, what are they actually losing access to? Is, you know, they're is it unlimited access? Are they getting downgraded? If your platform has, like, ranking, like, is there other things that they will lose? You know, they're gonna lose their ranking amongst other members. If you offer group plans like team plans or family plans, making sure they understand that not only are they gonna lose access, but anyone else maybe that's sharing their account will also lose access. Bit of strong gamification here. So, yeah, if you do offer any sort of rewards or points, you know, for engagement as a subscriber, are those things gonna get lost? And then this one is a little bit specific to your business model, but, if you have customers or subscribers that are on old pricing models, so they might be paying, you know, 6.99 a month and the plan is now 9.99 a month and, know, you've been very kind and not moved them on to that higher pricing, they sort of have pricing that really doesn't exist anymore, you might wanna let them know that. So if they're thinking, oh, I'm not really using it at the moment, you know, I'll always just sign back up again in the future, Make sure they know that what they're losing is that 5.99 price. And if they do come in the future, then they actually would have to resubscribe at 9.99. So, that's always, if you've got customers who have, like, slightly lower engagement that just, are you know, that the pause subscribers as we're starting to call them, let them know that, you know, this pricing isn't available to them anymore. Okay. Halfway through tips. Well done. Bear with me. Tip number 6. So, alternative call to action. So, again, you know, if they're opening up your email and they're not clicking the, you know, update billing information, is there other assistance that they need? So, you know, do they just need need help? They're having problems logging in? Can you move any of those call to actions right into the email? So can it, the link to your phone number, the link to your support number, opening up a live chat? We also have, you know, customers who consider, like, putting a coupon in for further discounts. So just giving alternative paths here, beyond just update billing, update billing. So, yeah, you could, direct them to one of your teams to talk with. You know, every business would like the opportunity to talk to a subscriber who they thought might be churning, so try and take that as an action. Or, start to think about sort of preventative win back strategies, a coupon for your next of for next month's payment, or, you you know, can we offer you a pause, if you're not using the service? So, start to think about other things that your customers might be looking for. Tip number 7, and so I mentioned this a bit before, but, subject line. So the goal is that your customers are opening the emails. However, if they're not, then the most that they will see is your email subject line. So you need to make sure that if that's all they see, that that information has what you need. So, you know, including the fact that the card has declined, you know, what are they losing access to? The recurly top tips. You know, what do you want them to do? Update their payment information, and then again, that countdown. So start to build that countdown into the emails. So, this is a sort of, you know, a standard setup, I guess, very similar to the one that I showed you in the Recurly app. So I had, you know, monthly, template names that I had designed for my monthly campaign. I had template names that I had designed for my yearly campaign, and I had the emails. You'll notice that, I actually start my email sequence on day 3 in this example. We have a lot of customers who do it day 1. We have some customers that do it day 3. The sort of rationale about why you might want to do one or the other is, you know, when we if you remember that diagram, all the high bar chart the bar line, sorry, are right at the start. That's because our retry model is most effective in those sort of first 3 or 4 days. So some customers choose to not even let their cost their customer know that the payment failed because they wanna capture as many as they can through the retries in those first 3 days. And then anything that hasn't been collected by the retries, they would then start to email communicate with. So it just means, you know, for some customers, they wouldn't even know that there was a disruption at all, because the retry model kinda successfully collected and then no email even needed to go out. So that's a decision that you guys can, you know, think about. So, again, just linking back to the UI, really showing you here what that setup would look like. So, this is the day 3. So this is the email that's going to all customers, and then this one here specifically is just going as I mentioned at the start, if it's a hard decline, we can't retry or mo most cases, we can't retry hard decline error codes that we get back from your gateway. So there's no point waiting 3 days to communicate with them. You wanna let them know your hard decline customer base as soon as possible so you can send an email just based on the hard decline. So that would be a 27 day cycle, which we recommend for monthly subscriptions. And then this is what that 60 day cycle would look like, for your for the 1 year subscription example. So, again, a different email being sent every time, and then I've just sort of spread out when those emails are being sent. So I'm not, literally doubling up. I'm sort of just spreading out the cadence, throughout that window. Okay. Next section, is a little bit more about so we've looked at branding. We've looked at communication and tone, and now we're looking at a little bit about the setup. So how to get yourself set up, for, you know, best performance. So tip number 8 is, as I just mentioned, basically, multiple campaigns. So Recurly, just if you turn it on and don't haven't done anything with it, you probably just have one default done in campaign, which means that all of your subscribers are getting the exact same window length and they're getting the exact same emails. We would recommend, creating different campaigns to target different user groups. So, you saw in my example, there's a monthly campaign, and I've attached all my monthly plans to it. And then I have an annual campaign, and I've attached all my plans that are annual or 6 monthly. And I have different window lengths set and different email messaging going out. So that's a very easy split. We also, of course, we see customers who have a very diverse, subscriber base. So you might have a free plan that's available to students or, you know, low you know, 299 and then have also on the same within the same Recurly account, you might also have, more of a b to b teams plan where, you know, 5 plus people can subscribe. The types of language that you send to those 2 user bases might need to be different. So you can do, as I said, very friendly casual language for your student customer base or your student plans, and then a little bit more kind of formal, you know, overdue payments, that type of language to your enterprise plan. So those are some of the common ways that we see campaigns being used. Tip number 9, is just about getting the right communication service. There's lots of different ways to send to send these emails, basically. You know, recurly out of the box, obviously, we we will be sending these on your behalf. You can also set up a a demark that just means we can remove, some of this kind of via recurly language from the emails, which again just kinda helps with that, email validity. There are some, some thresholds that come into play there, to see whether it'd be right for your business, but we have accounts where we we can do that. We also have, an integration with SendGrid. So if SendGrid were your email provider that you're using in the rest of your business, you can actually now drop your API key into Recurly, and then, the emails that you make in Recurly would actually get sent via your SendGrid account instead of via ours. And same thing for Mailchimp. If you use Mailchimp, we have an API available so you can put your API key in. And, again, you would make your emails in Recurly and they would get sent out from your Mailchimp account. And then, the newest one that we have, so we launched this last year, is an integration with Braze. So if you are a Braze subscriber, Braze customer, or thinking about becoming a Braze customer, we have an integration. And what that means is you actually wouldn't make your emails in Recurly. You would make your emails in Braze, and we have done the work to make sure the correct events are being sent to Braze so that Braze knows when to send those emails out. And it just gives you, you know, kind of BRAID obviously is a very sophisticated, email system, so you can just, like, do more experimentation, a d splitting, and, kind of very detailed, tracking, of that performance. So there are a few different options there. Again, we can, you know, any follow-up questions, send them over and we can provide more information if you're interested in any of those. Okay. We're getting there. Tip number 10. Sort of the last. I have a sneaky tip 11, but, tip number 4 or tip number 10, is showing a payment overdue banner within your product and app. So, again, you know, with what you said, you get loads of emails a day. Are your customers even opening them? You know, there'll be some customers for sure who are using this failed payment as a option to churn and they're ignoring you on purpose. There's also a whole bunch of customers who probably don't even know that the payment didn't go through because they're not opening their emails, but they genuinely want to be subscribed to you. And so it's making sure you're showing them in the information in the right place. So, you know, if I was logging into my Disney app on my TV and there is no and I I wanted to say, like, you have an you know, your payment has failed. Like, you can't, you know, do something. I'd hate to think that it had expired and I didn't know it and I was gonna slowly lapse out of Dunning and they'd sending me emails. I just wasn't seeing them. So you really wanna show that payment overdue banner, inside your product offering. And, ideally, if you can, if, you know, if I was accessing it on a website, link off to where they need to make that payment, method. Again, a lot more trust is built in that moment than an email. They've logged in to your product. They a 100% know it's you giving that them that information, and so we see, you know, we tend to see actually, this is a customer of mine, Find My Past, and they had about 60% click through rate when they launched this banner here. So you get some really high engagement, from this. Sneaky tip number 11. So this is just if it is relevant, I guess. So Recurly also has, a product, or a feature, I should say, called, wallet Recurly Wallet, which is essentially a backup payment method. So it allows your customers to store more than one card or payment type on file. If you were to have that feature, in your business, then we just recommend that within your dunning sequence, you make sure to, mention that to customers. So, hey. Like, let's, you know, make sure this doesn't happen again. Click here to add a backup payment method or, you know, giving the customer an incentive to want to add a backup payment method. You know, you can offer them 10% off their next bill or something. So that's another tool that Recurly has. And if you have that tool, then we would also recommend you including that in your email sequence. So I guess, you know, what value can this bring to your business? You know, I've given you 10, 11 tips. Some are, you know, very easy to you could log in to Recurly right now and extend your done in window within about 3 clicks. So that's really easy. If you are sending one email template, you know, and you now want you you might have to design 4 more. For sure that takes and, you know, you've gotta work with marketing and communications, so that might take you a little bit longer. But, you know, why would you, you know, bring this to your to your business and say, hey. This is a project that we need to be doing, you know, q one of this year. So I've got some examples here of customers of ours that we've done a similar, you know, workshop looking at looking in detail at, you know, how they're set up. And then, they're making some of these changes to be more in line with our best practice, and we've seen some really great results. So, you know, small PDF had a 12% uplift. And they added a new branding, new email messaging, extended their window length. So, you know, 11% with Overleaf. So, again, extending their window length by 13 days, basically, gave them that additional 11%, which is essentially for every 100 invoices that were going in, 11 more of those are now being successfully collected. So, you know, you can work that out based on your MRR. And Kahoot, we love Kahoot here at Recurly. We we often play, when we're doing team training and stuff. So they had an 8% uplift again by extending their window length, and changing some of their communication. So we're, of course, showing you the really big powerful, impact that generally what we see across, you know, a lot of our customers are kind of, been doing this this project internally and what we tend to see is about a 3 to 5 percent uplift. So, you know, the if you're already doing all 10 top tips, fantastic. Pat yourself on the back. You probably there's not too much left but if you're we're looking at that presentation and thinking, wow. Yeah. We're not, you know, we're not doing any of that, then you would definitely be looking for that sort of, like, 5% uplift improvement. So, we'll be holding an office hours that you guys can join and we can show you a little bit more about how to track and monitor your performance. So this is just the recap. So if you were to take one page away with you, I'm sure Morgan's gonna share this out. But if you want a screenshot, this is the key slide. This is the 10 top tips, that we've just been through. And then, you know, key key takeaways of today, is if nothing else, update your branding. Like, if you're only gonna do one of these, then the branding one is really key. If your emails are not on brand, it's very unlikely people are probably clicking them. The second key takeaway is pretty much across the board. The longer you have a done in window, the better, Recurly's tools can work for you. I know a lot of businesses think that, by extending the dunning window, you're kind of giving away your your service or product for free. You know, if it's 27 days, your customers now get 27 days free access. There are, ways. Jeremy is gonna join, the office hours who can talk a bit more about this, but there are ways to listen to webhooks so that you can actually stop the access to your product while still continuing dunning. So if that's your concern, don't worry. There are ways to to stop the concept to kind of free access whilst they're in dunning. And then, yeah, you know, please do go and look at your MRR in McCurley and, you know, calculate for your business. What would 3 to 5% uplift to you guys look like. And hopefully that helps you get kind of internal, support of of leading this project. Yeah. Thanks for listening to me today. You know, appreciate everyone's time and joining. Hopefully, it was useful. I will, hand back over to Morgan, who's gonna share a little bit more about some of the events that we have coming up and, how you can find out more about this. Awesome. Thank you so much, Hannah. Really helpful tips and overall just really simple small things you can do today to optimize that dunning process and see some real impact. So I hope everyone on the call today learned something and tries at least one of the techniques that Hannah talked about. If you do, let us know. We'd love to see how it works for you. Alright. And then just to wrap us up, wanna touch on our next event, which will be our 2025 state of subscriptions webinar. I promise you, you don't wanna miss this session. We'll be diving into the latest data and insights from all Recurly merchants across industries, geographies, and functions. This webinar will explore key benchmarks, emerging trends, and the statistics that are set to shape the future of subscription businesses in 2025. So leaving that webinar, you'll have a clear understanding of predictive trends as well as the most pressing challenges and opportunities in the subscription economy. You'll also have actionable takeaways you can apply right away to improve your strategies and accelerate that growth. So keep an eye on your inbox for the official invitation or scan the QR code there on the screen to go ahead and sign up, and we can't wait to see you there. And finally, thank you all for joining us today for our session on dunning optimization. I hope you're walking away with actionable strategies to help reduce that involuntary churn, recover lost revenue, and really create a more effective payment recovery process. Remember, those small adjustments can really make a big impact when it comes to retaining your customers and maximizing that revenue. So if you have any follow-up questions or wanna dive deeper into the strategies we covered today, we will be hosting an open open office hour session tomorrow, January 24th at 10 AM CST. We will post a sign up link for that in the chat now. And then finally, be on the lookout for future invites from Recurly Navigate as we ought to continue to create content like this, to provide you with even more insights and strategies to help you grow. So if you liked what you saw today, make sure you sign up for those upcoming lunch and learns. And then thank you again for being part of the Recurly community, and we look forward to seeing you at our next navigate session. Have a great day.